I read articles like this all the time for multiple websites. I am a professional application performance tester and I can tell you that most of these articles are junk just to stir up the masses. Most of their statistics are based on averages. This means that 51% of the time they are wrong. Have you noticed that none of them show confidence tests to prove that their data is accurate? Also they don't use 90th percentiles. I think this is due to the lack of the tools that they are using to generate these sub-standard statistics. Until the software they are using is more precise I would consider these tests to be junk science.
Thanks for all the information. I used this model to build my first computer, although no matter what I try to do, my CPU-Z never shows me the multiplier being anything but 4.0 and I can't get my core speed above 800 even w/ CnQ disabled.
You need to update your bios on your motherboard. I had the exact same thing with my new Phenom II 955 build on a Gigabyte board. Once you update, go into your bios and set the clock at 200 x 16. You'll notice the speed difference right away - it's a smoking fast CPU!
Geez, some of you people make it sound like AMD has to have the fastest CPU in the market or they just aren't any good or something!
AMD knows what their chip/PC parts are worth in the market place and their price/performance fits in very nicely. I applaud AMD, without them you'd be reading about the new $900 2GHz P4s right about now LOL!
Either AnandTech is Intel fan or Intel pays them hefty Loyalty.
If not, then why every other reviewieng site shows AMD PHENOM 2 X4 955 BE defeating Core i7 940 on evey computing prospects.
On some instances it has bashed on Core i7 965 extreme.
This is pretty much biased and helping INTEL play their MONOPOLOY in this sector. In today's market, no two rivals can have their top of line product bearing differences of Day and Night like shown in this review.
Either AnandTech is Intel fan or Intel pays them hefty Loyalty.
If not, then why every other reviewieng site shows AMD PHENOM 2 X4 955 BE defeating Core i7 940 on evey computing prospects.
On some instances it has bashed on Core i7 965 extreme.
This is pretty much biased and helping INTEL play their MONOPOLOY in this sector. In today's market, no two rivals can have their top of line product bearing differences of Day and Night like shown in this review.
Either AnandTech is Intel fan or Intel pays them hefty Loyalty.
If not, then why every other reviewieng site shows AMD PHENOM 2 X4 955 BE defeating Core i7 940 on evey computing prospects.
On some instances it has bashed on Core i7 965 extreme.
This is pretty much biased and helping INTEL play their MONOPOLOY in this sector. In today's market, no two rivals can have their top of line product bearing differences of Day and Night like shown in this review.
PII 940 BE = $189.99 on Newegg right now and for the last week+
PII 940 BE = $189.99 on Newegg right now and for the last week+
PII 940 BE = $189.99 on Newegg right now and for the last week+
PII 940 BE = $189.99 on Newegg right now and for the last week+
PII 940 BE = $189.99 on Newegg right now and for the last week+
PII 940 BE = $189.99 on Newegg right now and for the last week+
PII 940 BE = $189.99 on Newegg right now and for the last week+
----
Why is it every AMD article on this site has errors?
It seems every article posted at Anandtech lately has been riddled with sentence fragments. "Especially now that DDR2 and DDR3 are closer in price" isn't a sentence.
C'mon guys, this mumbo-jumbo would never fly in print.
It has been proposed, or should I say down right leaked, that AMD is going to a 128bit register. Not in that we'll have a 128bit OS but it will be able to push 2 64bit registers once.
This is what Bulldozer is rumored to be at. If so, then it is quite possible AMD has an answer for HT. Now once they go to 32nm, better gate efficiency, SSE5 ( if anyone actually puts out an APP for it ) and higher clocks with tripple/quad DDR3 we might see some real heavyweight cpu's that will make the i7 tremble.
It doesn't matter that Larrabee has these things. Larrabee isn't going to be used much for integers and that is what is pushing the i7's death blows to AMD's tech right now.
The Larrabee 256bit registers have absolutely nothing to do with the 128bit registers AMD is rumored to have on bulldozer. Larrabee isn't going to replace the i7 it will enhance the ability to have a chip that can handle graphics and possibly ray tracing. AVX is the new SSE engine and you need you need 256bit registers to get better precision. While AMD's 128bit registers are for doing normal work, or having copies of the same register call in case of branch prediction failure, in the normal CPU pipeline. ( the last part is my speculation on branch prediction )
And AMD has been talking about Fusion for years. When they go to a smaller process they can put stream proc.s from the ATI tech on their chips if they want AVX type work to be done.
The introduction into this article was really bad. I thought I had jumped into the middle of it. I backed out and tried again. You might have thought it was clever or different, but, maybe too different.
What are you going to try next? Putting an intro on page 5? That would be different too, and you'd get more clicks, since people would think they were on the wrong page.
I'll bet Intel's team is poopping in their pants, now! :P
Gratz to AMD's team on core speed achievement!
Getting triple bus pipes (core I7) or quad. bus pipes is nothing new to AMD since that was their theory back in the day. Increasing bus pipes is just a matter of times and strategy for AMD team. By what've I meant:
Pentium = single bus, high core speed
Athlon = dual bus, low core speed (win)
Core 2 Dual = dual buses, high core speed
Phenom II = dual bused, high core speed
Core I7 = triple buses, high core speed
AMD = ???
From what I've seen, core speed is pretty much hitting the ceilling and bus pipes... the sky is limited! To my surprise, you guys as a technical aspect and knowledge, and failed to realize this?!?!?!
It's getting interesting more and more each day as AMD achieved their core speed milestone!
The number of memory channels has severely limited potential for returns on investment. Going from single to dual-channel was good for up to 10% back in the day, and perhaps 15% now. Tri-channel i7 will probably end up being 2-5% faster than dual-channel i5, all other things being equal.
The problem is that adding more memory channels can dramatically increase bandwidth, but it does nothing for latency - and in some cases can even make latency higher. The big benefit for AMD in the Athlon 64 era wasn't the dual-channel chipset; it was the integrated memory controller. That has a major impact on latency, but it can only be done once. AMD and Intel have both done it now, so what's next?
Let's put it this way: imagine a CPU running at 4GHz, so the clock cycle time is 250ps. Now let's take that same CPU with memory that has an average latency of 75ns - or 75000ps. That means any time the CPU has a cache miss and has to hit main memory, it loses 300 clock cycles!
Of course, memory is accessed in chunks, so the CPU might load up a 256 byte cache line at a time. That means over a dual-channel 128-bit bus it needs to hit memory 16 times to load a whole cache line from memory. If you were to jump to a quad-channel memory interface, you could load a cache line into memory in half the time. The first access to memory is the one usually holding up the CPU, however, so the net benefit of doubling the channels/bandwidth is pretty small. Even with infinite bandwidth, the 300 CPU cycle latency to access main memory is still there.
This might sound crazy, but I'm still thinking at some point they'll put SRAM back on the motherboard as a fourth level cache. You'd cut the access time dramatically, since you don't need a refresh cycle. You'd still be really slow compared to on board memory, but it would still be a lot better than DRAM. On-board memory controllers would help this, and also the relatively low clock speeds of processors compared to bus speeds would help some as well (compared to the Pentium 4 days, where the processors ran at higher clock speeds, and the memory bus at lower).
It wouldn't add too much cost either. For Intel it might not make much sense, but for AMD, since they can't make a competitive processor, they can give it additional help in other areas. Add a 128 MB cache on the motherboard, and you'd beat Intel processors in some benchmarks, and in others you'd close the game some. The motherboards would still be cheaper than the overpriced i7 ones.
Maybe you'd need 256mb, I don't know, but my point is, there's a real benefit, and AMD needs what help they can get to compete with the i7. It's a monster, but it still waits a long time on memory. That's an important advantage to have.
It is good that the pricepoint is compared for all platforms, but i suggest you check the overall price again, in your final words you state it is a small price difference to go to i7... but check the board prices again on newegg.
the cheapest amd am3 board is on sale for 95$
the cheapest intel i7 board is on sale for 195$
that is more then 10-70$ not to mention the am2+ compatibility and way cheaper boards although off course you lack a bit of features, but then again how much do you really need?
Well, the most expensive X58 board is over $400, while the cheapest AM2+ boards are under $50, do you want them to say the range is over $350? I'd guess the thinking behind that statement was that you would pair the most expensive processor AMD sells with a higher-end board - the AMD boards top out at about $190, about where the i7 boards start (ignoring rebates).
It's the minimum entry level into each that I think most people would be curious about. The higher end stuff can really skyrocket the price after all and I am pretty sure it would be filled with features not likely to interest the majority.
Again though, those who are looking to buy the 955 are probably interested in some of the stuff the better boards offer. Considering the performance available form the 720 or 940 at cheaper prices, I am still doubtful how many people would go for the 955 and the cheapest motherboard possible.
AMD is getting close and that's a good thing as all of us know. Not that I use AMD, but low prices on Intel chips is good.
But I think that AMD is soon going to be left behind again when Intel introduces the affordable i5. From what I know the only difference between i7 is that i5 has only 2 channels of RAM and it has the PCIe controller on the package. Surely it won't be too far behind i7 in terms of performance.
Also can someone clarify whether i5 will be using QPI?
well then you are one of the so many that have an issue about best price/performance and waht about know, all non i7 buyers are better of pricewise with a AMD based system unless you really want to stick with dualcore for no future at all... . On what planet were you living from 2003-2006 when AMD was the better choice of buying instead off Intel.
AMD still has a long way to go but they are improving. I am glad to see them improve since it pressures Intel to lower prices that benefit the majority of us who can't afford Intel's high end. The closer the competition the better for the consumer, we can't afford to see AMD die off as some joke about.
"..but as applications and workloads become more threaded the i7 could be a wiser long-term purchase. "
I bought my Q6600 in 2007 and for good reasons (then). I made good use of the four cores - but I've been hearing the above quoted sentence sind 2007 and before but it still has not become true and probably wont before quite some time.
Where is this "more threaded" and when will it actually arrive? :P
The situation is such, that I'm definitely going to wait for i5 for the next upgrade and may grab a dualie with hyperthreading, simply because theres only so much I need 4 physical cores for now so it starts to seem like 2 cores plus the two additional logic cores is the more cost efficient and rational way.
An i7 is definitely not going to be my thing - I just dont need 8 logical cores enough to make it worthwhile.
But maybe I can stick to my trusty Q6600 long enough for AMD to serve me the perfect solution, maybe with Bulldozer?
Why do you look at the number of cores and decide? Look at the performance numbers and decided.
Besides Hyper threading can't deliver performance boost in all applications. So if you're going 2 cores with hyperthreading you may not see as much performance as 4 physical cores in many apps. You need to look at performance numbers for the apps you most use, not the number of cores.
But I think that's just it. The number of apps that use more than 2 cores is at quite a dearth, particularly given the 2 years since the 4 core processors started coming out in force.
So that's just it. How many apps does one use that takes advantage of more than 2 cores? Personally, I have 2 - a compiler and an MP3 ripper. And the MP3 ripper is only marginally speedier with 2x as many cores.
So the point still stands from the Grandparent - Why do we need these 4 core behemoths (well, 4 cores with hyperthreading) when there are still so few applications that take advantage of those cores?
The BIOS updates situation is pretty sad. When I bought my M3A32-MVP Deluxe (790FX) board and a cheap lower-end Phenom X4, I was hoping that the board would allow me to use future 45nm Phenom CPUs without problems. That won't happen. Even though the board is technically compatible even with the 955, Asus will never release a BIOS update for this board. Asus likes to abandon its customers once the product is more than 6 months old.
It's not only Asus's fault, though. AMD has been changing sockets like crazy for the last few years. S939/S754, AM2, AM2+, AM3.. Meanwhile Intel only switched sockets once with the move to i7.
I agree, the BIOS situation is horrible. What is even worse is what you have to do to update a BIOS to use a newer processor. I will give an example, which I know is kind of extreme but it shows what's wrong with the situation.
I bought an ASUS P5B a couple of years ago when CompUSA was going out of business. It was a good board for a cheap price. I didn't have any use for it at the time, as I had a good AMD S939 system running, but socked it away for future use. Couple of years later, I get a Celeron 430 + ECS mobo deal at Fry's for like $60. I put the CPU in and..... it doesn't even beep at me. I had to go and buy an ancient CPU (Pentium 630) just to get to the point where I could do the friggin' BIOS update to be able to run the newer Celeron. This, to me, is unacceptable. I'm not asking for full compatibility, just enough smarts to realize that this is a working processor plugged in, so can't we just run it at some minimum specs and pop up a "Please Update BIOS" message on the screen, and allow that BIOS update to run?
I totally understand CPU-mobo mismatches if the newer CPU requires a lower voltage or something like that. But, if the CPU is compatible, it ought to run in some minimal state necessary to at least load a BIOS update. Ideally, it would run some microkernel with networking that could automatically FTP the latest BIOS from the manufacturer; but that's probably too much to ask.
Some motherboards do. My abit ip-35 pro ran my q9450 at 2.2Ghz, under the wrong name until I flashed the bios. So it is possible it seems to depend on the effort the board manufacturer is willing to make.
Just because a board uses Socket 775 doesn't necessarily mean it can use all S775 processors, my P965 board doesn't list compatibility with any 1333FSB processors.
AMD
Socket 939 June 2004
AM2 May 2006
AM2+ Nov 2007
AM3 February 2009
Intel
473 Nov 00
478 Aug 01
775 June 2004
1366 Nov 08
Now intel may recently have been not releasing new sockets as quickly as AMD, but during the Pentium 4 days from 473 to 478 to 775 they were releasing new sockets as quickly as AMD did during the AM2 era. And while you had the same socket 775 for 4 years it wasn't guaranteed that the newer cpus will work on your motherboard (see nvidia chipsets which wouldn't allow you to upgrade from a Pentium 4 to a Pentium d or a 65nm part to a 45 nm part). How is that different than AM2+ processors being compatible with AM2 boards if the bios maker just released a stupid bios.
Pentium 4 Northwood, Prescott - I don't *think* there was any compatibility issue here, though I'm sure some boards didn't support new Prescott chips, and of course there were new FSB speeds that required a new board/chipset
Pentium D Smithfield - yes, another chipset/board upgrade was needed.
Pentium D Presler - sadly, many boards didn't support this update either, since it used a 1066FSB.
Conroe/Allendale - definitely needs new board/chipset, but mostly compatible with all new "Core" CPUs.
Kentsfield - many boards wouldn't support quad core, so you needed to upgrade.
Wolfdale/Yorkfield - yet again, many need an updated board.
Or we could just list chipsets:
865/875 - adds 800FSB
910/915/920 - PCI-E and DDR2 support. Prescott also.
945/955 - 1066FSB and Pentium D
965/975 - Initial Core 2 chipsets; Core 2 Quad not supported on all boards
P35/X38 - adds support for 1333FSB, initial DDR3 support starts
P45 - Generally needed for Wolfdale/Yorkfield support
X48 - adds official 1600FSB (only needed for Q9770)
So while socket 775 has been around "forever", we have had no less than six chipset families in that time - and that's just the Intel chipsets. NVIDIA would add quite a few more to the mix. Naturally, AMD wasn't without fault - there were 939 boards that wouldn't work with dual-core chips, and later AM2 boards that don't work with Phenom. Now we have AM2+ that won't work with AM3 chips.
All this goes back to my general attitude of never purchasing a motherboard for its "future proof" capabilities. Get a board because it has what you want/need right now, and when it's time to upgrade then reevaluate your needs.
My 'ol P965 board can technically run the latest Wolfdale CPU. You have to overclock the FSB to 1600, but that's no big deal really cuz I run a Conroe past that anyway lol. Gigabyte keeps things up to date as long as there isn't some serious hardware level incompatibility.
Some 945 boards can run the latest stuff too as long as it's 800 FSB.
Really, the sockets change because the CPU maker figured out that the older spec didn't do the trick for some reason. I find it curious that people think that sockets should last for many CPU generations, as if the socket has little to do in the grand scheme of things.
Ditto... I got burned buying socket 939 x2 4400+ right when the it came out (July 2005), expecting to have a drop-in CPU upgrade in the next year or two. Boy was I pissed when it was replaced by Socket AM2 in May 2006, just 10 months later. (and also pissed that nothing much faster than the 4400+ was ever released on 939).
Do they really get so much benefit from changing sockets that losing compatibility is worth it?
I think honestly that a large percentage of chipset/mobo updates are to help companies make money and not for any serious benefit. It's usually at best a 2-5% boost in performance for stuff like new memory technology, tweaked chipset, etc.
hey, is it safe to conclude that since farcry2 shows a 5% increase going from ddr3 1066 to ddr 3 1333 & another 4% going from ddr 3 1333 to ddr 1600, that overall it'd show a 9% increase switching from ddr1066 to ddr1600? that's quite a leap just based on memory!
Unfortunately - at 3.2 it can't keep up with 2.66 i7
Sadly - AMD needs new architecture
Unlikely - that it will happen soone
Disappointing - results even though quality is improving
Useless - to keep comparing the lates amd to intel
Waste - of article space for these comparisons
Unpleasant - to AMD fans
Painfully - obvious AMD is far behind
Negligible - improvements with new releases
--
Luckily - there are other articles to read
Thankfully - I don't own one of these chips or mobos
Great - bunch of useless data
Possibility - AMD may pull something actually new of these days
Benefit - of better pricing and competition
impressive - how I'm still finding things to write on this
Once again - I am bored by a Tom's article
Surprise - (sorry no surprises here)
Refreshing - my post has come to an end.
Oh yeah, and the fact that a stock i7 has Turbo Mode is fair game. AMD needs to produce better than this. They own the mid-range GPU market with excellent cards like the HD 4870, but their processor development just - flat - needs - help.
Not an issue-I own both AMD and Intel systems but am considering moving up from my 9950BE to the 955 and want to be sure of what I am buying before I spend my money. Some of us aren't as well versed as others in the finer points and that's what I thought the comments section was for.
I can understand some of your comments, but according to his data/listed values, the i7 920 is NOT running at stock speed. The frequency he lists is 2.8, NOT 2.66. What's up with that Anand? I can't see where you mention that your test was run with OC'd cpu's but the speed you list for the i7 920 is overclocked? It does skew the results if that is the case.
To clarify, the listed speeds for Sysmark, which would make the i7 part look much better than if you had run it at 2.66. To draw the conclusions at the end of your article without noting the difference(if there is one and it's not a typo) or justifying your conclusion with proper references of performance in 50% of your published tests is confusing to say the least. Can you clarify?
I'm guessing that he is showing the processor's actual speed during the test. The 2.8GHz speed likely is due to the i7's native ability to overclock itself via Turbo Mode (see page 4 of the article). In other words, the i7-920 dynamically has an actual clock speed up to 2.93GHz, depending on the application(s) running.
woops, sorry for the confusion there, the i7-920 ran at its stock speed of 2.66GHz but Turbo Mode was enabled so it'll run as fast as 2.8GHz when more than one core is active.
See page 4 - Turbo mode tends to activate pretty much any time a load is on the CPU. But it's not really "unfair" as all i7 users get that benefit without doing anything extra, plus i7 chips still overclock far beyond that point.
Congratulations on the cryptic post... or is that pointless post? I'm guessing you're suggesting that the words listed were used with two different companies - AMD and Intel - but if so they certainly weren't used in this article in any way I can see. Care to enlighten the rest of us on the point of your comment?
Some people are too clever for their own good; others merely think they're clever. Guess which one you are.
Dont hold your breath. Theres more registers (etc) in use under a 64bit OS than a 32bit one. Its highly unlikely that there will be any difference on the exact same hardware. And even if there is a difference between xp/vista/7, 32bit 7 will outdo 64bit 7 as well. 64bit was never the ideal choice for overclocking records...
In the CS4 test, given the large increase in performance when just going from DDR2 to DDR3, would a faster NB clock (2->2.6/2.8ghz) and faster than DDR1333 memory, while keeping the core at default clock, level the playing field with the core2 processors?
Seems that in this particular test the phenom is starved for data.
Intel and Amd are owned by the same person. Since a person can't have monoply in U.S. It has been divided into two different names and obviously diff. CEOs.
Many online reviews written by the computer hardware. Regard it as the person seeking advice testdrives Ferrari to life when you want to buy a car for your daily needs of commuting, and he might start telling you how bad the Toyota Prius, regardless of cost or requirement. In the world of processors, this is BMW's very good that you managed to buy a very cheap price.
i m using AMD 955 Balack Edition with Asus MotherBoard M5A78MLX is that mother board is compatible with the processor or not becouse with this combination i got an error on bootup the system THE CPU IS NOT SUPPORTED TO THIS PRODUCT TO DETAIL GO TO WEB SITE ASUS.COM Now sir Help Me Or Guied me is that Motherboard is supported for AMD Pheonem 955 II Processor wht do i do with the error its a serious thing for the system or i have to ignore it
I'm guessing that he is showing the processor's actual speed during the test. The 2.8GHz speed likely is due to the i7's native ability to overclock itself via Turbo Mode (see page 4 of the article). Turbo mode tends to activate pretty much any time a load is on the CPU. But it's not really "unfair" as all i7 users get that benefit without doing anything extra, plus i7 chips still overclock far beyond that point. http://www.freeinstafollowers.info/
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dragonsphere - Tuesday, July 28, 2009 - link
I read articles like this all the time for multiple websites. I am a professional application performance tester and I can tell you that most of these articles are junk just to stir up the masses. Most of their statistics are based on averages. This means that 51% of the time they are wrong. Have you noticed that none of them show confidence tests to prove that their data is accurate? Also they don't use 90th percentiles. I think this is due to the lack of the tools that they are using to generate these sub-standard statistics. Until the software they are using is more precise I would consider these tests to be junk science.cal954 - Saturday, May 2, 2009 - link
Thanks for all the information. I used this model to build my first computer, although no matter what I try to do, my CPU-Z never shows me the multiplier being anything but 4.0 and I can't get my core speed above 800 even w/ CnQ disabled.Hamlet2000 - Saturday, May 9, 2009 - link
You need to update your bios on your motherboard. I had the exact same thing with my new Phenom II 955 build on a Gigabyte board. Once you update, go into your bios and set the clock at 200 x 16. You'll notice the speed difference right away - it's a smoking fast CPU!Edgemeal - Monday, April 27, 2009 - link
Geez, some of you people make it sound like AMD has to have the fastest CPU in the market or they just aren't any good or something!AMD knows what their chip/PC parts are worth in the market place and their price/performance fits in very nicely. I applaud AMD, without them you'd be reading about the new $900 2GHz P4s right about now LOL!
swapnadip - Friday, April 24, 2009 - link
Either AnandTech is Intel fan or Intel pays them hefty Loyalty.If not, then why every other reviewieng site shows AMD PHENOM 2 X4 955 BE defeating Core i7 940 on evey computing prospects.
On some instances it has bashed on Core i7 965 extreme.
This is pretty much biased and helping INTEL play their MONOPOLOY in this sector. In today's market, no two rivals can have their top of line product bearing differences of Day and Night like shown in this review.
Thanks
swapnadip - Friday, April 24, 2009 - link
Either AnandTech is Intel fan or Intel pays them hefty Loyalty.If not, then why every other reviewieng site shows AMD PHENOM 2 X4 955 BE defeating Core i7 940 on evey computing prospects.
On some instances it has bashed on Core i7 965 extreme.
This is pretty much biased and helping INTEL play their MONOPOLOY in this sector. In today's market, no two rivals can have their top of line product bearing differences of Day and Night like shown in this review.
Thanks
swapnadip - Friday, April 24, 2009 - link
Either AnandTech is Intel fan or Intel pays them hefty Loyalty.If not, then why every other reviewieng site shows AMD PHENOM 2 X4 955 BE defeating Core i7 940 on evey computing prospects.
On some instances it has bashed on Core i7 965 extreme.
This is pretty much biased and helping INTEL play their MONOPOLOY in this sector. In today's market, no two rivals can have their top of line product bearing differences of Day and Night like shown in this review.
Thanks
iFX - Friday, April 24, 2009 - link
PII 940 BE = $189.99 on Newegg right now and for the last week+PII 940 BE = $189.99 on Newegg right now and for the last week+
PII 940 BE = $189.99 on Newegg right now and for the last week+
PII 940 BE = $189.99 on Newegg right now and for the last week+
PII 940 BE = $189.99 on Newegg right now and for the last week+
PII 940 BE = $189.99 on Newegg right now and for the last week+
PII 940 BE = $189.99 on Newegg right now and for the last week+
----
Why is it every AMD article on this site has errors?
wowo - Friday, April 24, 2009 - link
how x264?x264 benchmark 2.0 is very old .it is 819,but new x264 is 1139.intel is better for 1139 a lot.
please test wirh new x264.
ultrageek1111 - Friday, April 24, 2009 - link
you know what they say about black processors...corporategoon - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
It seems every article posted at Anandtech lately has been riddled with sentence fragments. "Especially now that DDR2 and DDR3 are closer in price" isn't a sentence.C'mon guys, this mumbo-jumbo would never fly in print.
hooflung - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
It has been proposed, or should I say down right leaked, that AMD is going to a 128bit register. Not in that we'll have a 128bit OS but it will be able to push 2 64bit registers once.This is what Bulldozer is rumored to be at. If so, then it is quite possible AMD has an answer for HT. Now once they go to 32nm, better gate efficiency, SSE5 ( if anyone actually puts out an APP for it ) and higher clocks with tripple/quad DDR3 we might see some real heavyweight cpu's that will make the i7 tremble.
That is if AMD survives the Quarterly losses.
Spoelie - Friday, April 24, 2009 - link
Larrabee derivative cores have 256bit registers and AVX extensions.. I imagine the successor to i7 will have a few of those as well.I hope amd drops the SSE5 bit and focuses on AVX, only reason not to is (1) pride (2) too late into bulldozer development. First is a bad reason and second would be a shame. Technically AVX is superior to SSE5.
http://aceshardware.freeforums.org/intel-avx-kills...">http://aceshardware.freeforums.org/intel-avx-kills...
hooflung - Friday, April 24, 2009 - link
It doesn't matter that Larrabee has these things. Larrabee isn't going to be used much for integers and that is what is pushing the i7's death blows to AMD's tech right now.The Larrabee 256bit registers have absolutely nothing to do with the 128bit registers AMD is rumored to have on bulldozer. Larrabee isn't going to replace the i7 it will enhance the ability to have a chip that can handle graphics and possibly ray tracing. AVX is the new SSE engine and you need you need 256bit registers to get better precision. While AMD's 128bit registers are for doing normal work, or having copies of the same register call in case of branch prediction failure, in the normal CPU pipeline. ( the last part is my speculation on branch prediction )
And AMD has been talking about Fusion for years. When they go to a smaller process they can put stream proc.s from the ATI tech on their chips if they want AVX type work to be done.
Leyawiin - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
Gaming results look very promising. I'll give it a couple months for the prices to drop a bit and I think this will be my new build.TA152H - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
The introduction into this article was really bad. I thought I had jumped into the middle of it. I backed out and tried again. You might have thought it was clever or different, but, maybe too different.What are you going to try next? Putting an intro on page 5? That would be different too, and you'd get more clicks, since people would think they were on the wrong page.
DeOderView - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
Nice article!I'll bet Intel's team is poopping in their pants, now! :P
Gratz to AMD's team on core speed achievement!
Getting triple bus pipes (core I7) or quad. bus pipes is nothing new to AMD since that was their theory back in the day. Increasing bus pipes is just a matter of times and strategy for AMD team. By what've I meant:
Pentium = single bus, high core speed
Athlon = dual bus, low core speed (win)
Core 2 Dual = dual buses, high core speed
Phenom II = dual bused, high core speed
Core I7 = triple buses, high core speed
AMD = ???
From what I've seen, core speed is pretty much hitting the ceilling and bus pipes... the sky is limited! To my surprise, you guys as a technical aspect and knowledge, and failed to realize this?!?!?!
It's getting interesting more and more each day as AMD achieved their core speed milestone!
Just you wait and see! :P
JarredWalton - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
The number of memory channels has severely limited potential for returns on investment. Going from single to dual-channel was good for up to 10% back in the day, and perhaps 15% now. Tri-channel i7 will probably end up being 2-5% faster than dual-channel i5, all other things being equal.The problem is that adding more memory channels can dramatically increase bandwidth, but it does nothing for latency - and in some cases can even make latency higher. The big benefit for AMD in the Athlon 64 era wasn't the dual-channel chipset; it was the integrated memory controller. That has a major impact on latency, but it can only be done once. AMD and Intel have both done it now, so what's next?
Let's put it this way: imagine a CPU running at 4GHz, so the clock cycle time is 250ps. Now let's take that same CPU with memory that has an average latency of 75ns - or 75000ps. That means any time the CPU has a cache miss and has to hit main memory, it loses 300 clock cycles!
Of course, memory is accessed in chunks, so the CPU might load up a 256 byte cache line at a time. That means over a dual-channel 128-bit bus it needs to hit memory 16 times to load a whole cache line from memory. If you were to jump to a quad-channel memory interface, you could load a cache line into memory in half the time. The first access to memory is the one usually holding up the CPU, however, so the net benefit of doubling the channels/bandwidth is pretty small. Even with infinite bandwidth, the 300 CPU cycle latency to access main memory is still there.
While it was written several years ago, http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=222...">the basic tenets of this article are still valid.
TA152H - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
This might sound crazy, but I'm still thinking at some point they'll put SRAM back on the motherboard as a fourth level cache. You'd cut the access time dramatically, since you don't need a refresh cycle. You'd still be really slow compared to on board memory, but it would still be a lot better than DRAM. On-board memory controllers would help this, and also the relatively low clock speeds of processors compared to bus speeds would help some as well (compared to the Pentium 4 days, where the processors ran at higher clock speeds, and the memory bus at lower).It wouldn't add too much cost either. For Intel it might not make much sense, but for AMD, since they can't make a competitive processor, they can give it additional help in other areas. Add a 128 MB cache on the motherboard, and you'd beat Intel processors in some benchmarks, and in others you'd close the game some. The motherboards would still be cheaper than the overpriced i7 ones.
Maybe you'd need 256mb, I don't know, but my point is, there's a real benefit, and AMD needs what help they can get to compete with the i7. It's a monster, but it still waits a long time on memory. That's an important advantage to have.
duploxxx - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
It is good that the pricepoint is compared for all platforms, but i suggest you check the overall price again, in your final words you state it is a small price difference to go to i7... but check the board prices again on newegg.the cheapest amd am3 board is on sale for 95$
the cheapest intel i7 board is on sale for 195$
that is more then 10-70$ not to mention the am2+ compatibility and way cheaper boards although off course you lack a bit of features, but then again how much do you really need?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Sub...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi...10706453...
strikeback03 - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
Well, the most expensive X58 board is over $400, while the cheapest AM2+ boards are under $50, do you want them to say the range is over $350? I'd guess the thinking behind that statement was that you would pair the most expensive processor AMD sells with a higher-end board - the AMD boards top out at about $190, about where the i7 boards start (ignoring rebates).just4U - Friday, April 24, 2009 - link
It's the minimum entry level into each that I think most people would be curious about. The higher end stuff can really skyrocket the price after all and I am pretty sure it would be filled with features not likely to interest the majority.strikeback03 - Friday, April 24, 2009 - link
Again though, those who are looking to buy the 955 are probably interested in some of the stuff the better boards offer. Considering the performance available form the 720 or 940 at cheaper prices, I am still doubtful how many people would go for the 955 and the cheapest motherboard possible.duploxxx - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
arrgghh stupied newegg search engine and no edit on anandtech poststhe msi costs 131, that is still 40$
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...
ssj4Gogeta - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
AMD is getting close and that's a good thing as all of us know. Not that I use AMD, but low prices on Intel chips is good.But I think that AMD is soon going to be left behind again when Intel introduces the affordable i5. From what I know the only difference between i7 is that i5 has only 2 channels of RAM and it has the PCIe controller on the package. Surely it won't be too far behind i7 in terms of performance.
Also can someone clarify whether i5 will be using QPI?
duploxxx - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
well then you are one of the so many that have an issue about best price/performance and waht about know, all non i7 buyers are better of pricewise with a AMD based system unless you really want to stick with dualcore for no future at all... . On what planet were you living from 2003-2006 when AMD was the better choice of buying instead off Intel.Sagath - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
Yes, and No. It uses a QPI derivative called CPI if my memory serves correct.I dont remember where I read this, so I cannot referance you to it. Nor do I know the difference between the two. Sorry.
knutjb - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
AMD still has a long way to go but they are improving. I am glad to see them improve since it pressures Intel to lower prices that benefit the majority of us who can't afford Intel's high end. The closer the competition the better for the consumer, we can't afford to see AMD die off as some joke about.Griswold - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
"..but as applications and workloads become more threaded the i7 could be a wiser long-term purchase. "I bought my Q6600 in 2007 and for good reasons (then). I made good use of the four cores - but I've been hearing the above quoted sentence sind 2007 and before but it still has not become true and probably wont before quite some time.
Where is this "more threaded" and when will it actually arrive? :P
The situation is such, that I'm definitely going to wait for i5 for the next upgrade and may grab a dualie with hyperthreading, simply because theres only so much I need 4 physical cores for now so it starts to seem like 2 cores plus the two additional logic cores is the more cost efficient and rational way.
An i7 is definitely not going to be my thing - I just dont need 8 logical cores enough to make it worthwhile.
But maybe I can stick to my trusty Q6600 long enough for AMD to serve me the perfect solution, maybe with Bulldozer?
ssj4Gogeta - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
Why do you look at the number of cores and decide? Look at the performance numbers and decided.Besides Hyper threading can't deliver performance boost in all applications. So if you're going 2 cores with hyperthreading you may not see as much performance as 4 physical cores in many apps. You need to look at performance numbers for the apps you most use, not the number of cores.
erple2 - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
But I think that's just it. The number of apps that use more than 2 cores is at quite a dearth, particularly given the 2 years since the 4 core processors started coming out in force.So that's just it. How many apps does one use that takes advantage of more than 2 cores? Personally, I have 2 - a compiler and an MP3 ripper. And the MP3 ripper is only marginally speedier with 2x as many cores.
So the point still stands from the Grandparent - Why do we need these 4 core behemoths (well, 4 cores with hyperthreading) when there are still so few applications that take advantage of those cores?
JimmiG - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
The BIOS updates situation is pretty sad. When I bought my M3A32-MVP Deluxe (790FX) board and a cheap lower-end Phenom X4, I was hoping that the board would allow me to use future 45nm Phenom CPUs without problems. That won't happen. Even though the board is technically compatible even with the 955, Asus will never release a BIOS update for this board. Asus likes to abandon its customers once the product is more than 6 months old.It's not only Asus's fault, though. AMD has been changing sockets like crazy for the last few years. S939/S754, AM2, AM2+, AM3.. Meanwhile Intel only switched sockets once with the move to i7.
slashbinslashbash - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
I agree, the BIOS situation is horrible. What is even worse is what you have to do to update a BIOS to use a newer processor. I will give an example, which I know is kind of extreme but it shows what's wrong with the situation.I bought an ASUS P5B a couple of years ago when CompUSA was going out of business. It was a good board for a cheap price. I didn't have any use for it at the time, as I had a good AMD S939 system running, but socked it away for future use. Couple of years later, I get a Celeron 430 + ECS mobo deal at Fry's for like $60. I put the CPU in and..... it doesn't even beep at me. I had to go and buy an ancient CPU (Pentium 630) just to get to the point where I could do the friggin' BIOS update to be able to run the newer Celeron. This, to me, is unacceptable. I'm not asking for full compatibility, just enough smarts to realize that this is a working processor plugged in, so can't we just run it at some minimum specs and pop up a "Please Update BIOS" message on the screen, and allow that BIOS update to run?
I totally understand CPU-mobo mismatches if the newer CPU requires a lower voltage or something like that. But, if the CPU is compatible, it ought to run in some minimal state necessary to at least load a BIOS update. Ideally, it would run some microkernel with networking that could automatically FTP the latest BIOS from the manufacturer; but that's probably too much to ask.
spunlex - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
Some motherboards do. My abit ip-35 pro ran my q9450 at 2.2Ghz, under the wrong name until I flashed the bios. So it is possible it seems to depend on the effort the board manufacturer is willing to make.strikeback03 - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
Just because a board uses Socket 775 doesn't necessarily mean it can use all S775 processors, my P965 board doesn't list compatibility with any 1333FSB processors.Roland00 - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
AMDSocket 939 June 2004
AM2 May 2006
AM2+ Nov 2007
AM3 February 2009
Intel
473 Nov 00
478 Aug 01
775 June 2004
1366 Nov 08
Now intel may recently have been not releasing new sockets as quickly as AMD, but during the Pentium 4 days from 473 to 478 to 775 they were releasing new sockets as quickly as AMD did during the AM2 era. And while you had the same socket 775 for 4 years it wasn't guaranteed that the newer cpus will work on your motherboard (see nvidia chipsets which wouldn't allow you to upgrade from a Pentium 4 to a Pentium d or a 65nm part to a 45 nm part). How is that different than AM2+ processors being compatible with AM2 boards if the bios maker just released a stupid bios.
JarredWalton - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
Let's not forget for socket 775 you had:Pentium 4 Northwood, Prescott - I don't *think* there was any compatibility issue here, though I'm sure some boards didn't support new Prescott chips, and of course there were new FSB speeds that required a new board/chipset
Pentium D Smithfield - yes, another chipset/board upgrade was needed.
Pentium D Presler - sadly, many boards didn't support this update either, since it used a 1066FSB.
Conroe/Allendale - definitely needs new board/chipset, but mostly compatible with all new "Core" CPUs.
Kentsfield - many boards wouldn't support quad core, so you needed to upgrade.
Wolfdale/Yorkfield - yet again, many need an updated board.
Or we could just list chipsets:
865/875 - adds 800FSB
910/915/920 - PCI-E and DDR2 support. Prescott also.
945/955 - 1066FSB and Pentium D
965/975 - Initial Core 2 chipsets; Core 2 Quad not supported on all boards
P35/X38 - adds support for 1333FSB, initial DDR3 support starts
P45 - Generally needed for Wolfdale/Yorkfield support
X48 - adds official 1600FSB (only needed for Q9770)
So while socket 775 has been around "forever", we have had no less than six chipset families in that time - and that's just the Intel chipsets. NVIDIA would add quite a few more to the mix. Naturally, AMD wasn't without fault - there were 939 boards that wouldn't work with dual-core chips, and later AM2 boards that don't work with Phenom. Now we have AM2+ that won't work with AM3 chips.
All this goes back to my general attitude of never purchasing a motherboard for its "future proof" capabilities. Get a board because it has what you want/need right now, and when it's time to upgrade then reevaluate your needs.
swaaye - Sunday, July 5, 2009 - link
My 'ol P965 board can technically run the latest Wolfdale CPU. You have to overclock the FSB to 1600, but that's no big deal really cuz I run a Conroe past that anyway lol. Gigabyte keeps things up to date as long as there isn't some serious hardware level incompatibility.Some 945 boards can run the latest stuff too as long as it's 800 FSB.
Really, the sockets change because the CPU maker figured out that the older spec didn't do the trick for some reason. I find it curious that people think that sockets should last for many CPU generations, as if the socket has little to do in the grand scheme of things.
crimson117 - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
Ditto... I got burned buying socket 939 x2 4400+ right when the it came out (July 2005), expecting to have a drop-in CPU upgrade in the next year or two. Boy was I pissed when it was replaced by Socket AM2 in May 2006, just 10 months later. (and also pissed that nothing much faster than the 4400+ was ever released on 939).Do they really get so much benefit from changing sockets that losing compatibility is worth it?
JarredWalton - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
I think honestly that a large percentage of chipset/mobo updates are to help companies make money and not for any serious benefit. It's usually at best a 2-5% boost in performance for stuff like new memory technology, tweaked chipset, etc.poohbear - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
hey, is it safe to conclude that since farcry2 shows a 5% increase going from ddr3 1066 to ddr 3 1333 & another 4% going from ddr 3 1333 to ddr 1600, that overall it'd show a 9% increase switching from ddr1066 to ddr1600? that's quite a leap just based on memory!lopri - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
UnfortunatelySadly
Unlikely
Disappointing
Useless
Waste
Unpleasant
Painfully
Negligible
--
Luckily
Thankfully
Great
Possibility
Benefit
impressive
Once again
Surprise
Refreshing
Next up (my guess): SSD or Mac
aguilpa1 - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
Unfortunately - at 3.2 it can't keep up with 2.66 i7Sadly - AMD needs new architecture
Unlikely - that it will happen soone
Disappointing - results even though quality is improving
Useless - to keep comparing the lates amd to intel
Waste - of article space for these comparisons
Unpleasant - to AMD fans
Painfully - obvious AMD is far behind
Negligible - improvements with new releases
--
Luckily - there are other articles to read
Thankfully - I don't own one of these chips or mobos
Great - bunch of useless data
Possibility - AMD may pull something actually new of these days
Benefit - of better pricing and competition
impressive - how I'm still finding things to write on this
Once again - I am bored by a Tom's article
Surprise - (sorry no surprises here)
Refreshing - my post has come to an end.
Nfarce - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
Hahaha! I'm still waiting on the AMD whiners complaining of Anandtech anti-AMD bias every time Intel whips them.Nfarce - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
Oh yeah, and the fact that a stock i7 has Turbo Mode is fair game. AMD needs to produce better than this. They own the mid-range GPU market with excellent cards like the HD 4870, but their processor development just - flat - needs - help.Procurion - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
Not an issue-I own both AMD and Intel systems but am considering moving up from my 9950BE to the 955 and want to be sure of what I am buying before I spend my money. Some of us aren't as well versed as others in the finer points and that's what I thought the comments section was for.Procurion - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
I can understand some of your comments, but according to his data/listed values, the i7 920 is NOT running at stock speed. The frequency he lists is 2.8, NOT 2.66. What's up with that Anand? I can't see where you mention that your test was run with OC'd cpu's but the speed you list for the i7 920 is overclocked? It does skew the results if that is the case.Procurion - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
To clarify, the listed speeds for Sysmark, which would make the i7 part look much better than if you had run it at 2.66. To draw the conclusions at the end of your article without noting the difference(if there is one and it's not a typo) or justifying your conclusion with proper references of performance in 50% of your published tests is confusing to say the least. Can you clarify?Spacecomber - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
I'm guessing that he is showing the processor's actual speed during the test. The 2.8GHz speed likely is due to the i7's native ability to overclock itself via Turbo Mode (see page 4 of the article). In other words, the i7-920 dynamically has an actual clock speed up to 2.93GHz, depending on the application(s) running.Anand Lal Shimpi - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
woops, sorry for the confusion there, the i7-920 ran at its stock speed of 2.66GHz but Turbo Mode was enabled so it'll run as fast as 2.8GHz when more than one core is active.Take care,
Anand
Procurion - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
Cool. My next question would be to wonder why it didn't kick in for the other tests? I guess it wasn't enabled for them? Looks good overall.JarredWalton - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
See page 4 - Turbo mode tends to activate pretty much any time a load is on the CPU. But it's not really "unfair" as all i7 users get that benefit without doing anything extra, plus i7 chips still overclock far beyond that point.ChemicalAffinity - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
Best post ever.whatthehey - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
Congratulations on the cryptic post... or is that pointless post? I'm guessing you're suggesting that the words listed were used with two different companies - AMD and Intel - but if so they certainly weren't used in this article in any way I can see. Care to enlighten the rest of us on the point of your comment?Some people are too clever for their own good; others merely think they're clever. Guess which one you are.
Lokinhow - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
Oh man, I thinking about the OC3.9GHz on Vista x64
4.2GHz on Vista x86
Why it happens?
Does the results are the same using XP x86/x64 and Windows 7 x86/x64?
That would be interesting to see if it is possible to reach 4.2GHz on Windows 7 x64
Griswold - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
Dont hold your breath. Theres more registers (etc) in use under a 64bit OS than a 32bit one. Its highly unlikely that there will be any difference on the exact same hardware. And even if there is a difference between xp/vista/7, 32bit 7 will outdo 64bit 7 as well. 64bit was never the ideal choice for overclocking records...Spoelie - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
In the CS4 test, given the large increase in performance when just going from DDR2 to DDR3, would a faster NB clock (2->2.6/2.8ghz) and faster than DDR1333 memory, while keeping the core at default clock, level the playing field with the core2 processors?Seems that in this particular test the phenom is starved for data.
duploxxx - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
why do you use these 1GB dimm's in ddr3 config? I would assume you have more oc issues with 4 dimms in stead off 2 dimms?G.Skill DDR2-800 2 x 2GB (4-4-4-12)
G.Skill DDR2-1066 2 x 2GB (5-5-5-15)
Qimonda DDR3-1066 4 x 1GB (7-7-7-20)
Corsair DDR3-1333 4 x 1GB (7-7-7-20)
Holly - Thursday, April 23, 2009 - link
Nice article :-)btw... last paragraph on the first page... "faster than the Core 2 Duo Q9550." should say "faster than the Core 2 Quad Q9550."
ibm386 - Sunday, June 27, 2010 - link
Intel and Amd are owned by the same person. Since a person can't have monoply in U.S. It has been divided into two different names and obviously diff. CEOs.cheers.
andi333 - Saturday, August 14, 2010 - link
Many online reviews written by the computer hardware. Regard it as the person seeking advice testdrives Ferrari to life when you want to buy a car for your daily needs of commuting, and he might start telling you how bad the Toyota Prius, regardless of cost or requirement. In the world of processors, this is BMW's very good that you managed to buy a very cheap price.bckolte - Wednesday, December 7, 2011 - link
i m using AMD 955 Balack Edition with Asus MotherBoard M5A78MLX is that mother board is compatible with the processor or notbecouse with this combination i got an error on bootup the system
THE CPU IS NOT SUPPORTED TO THIS PRODUCT TO DETAIL GO TO WEB SITE ASUS.COM
Now sir Help Me Or Guied me is that Motherboard is supported for AMD Pheonem 955 II Processor wht do i do with the error its a serious thing for the system or i have to ignore it
freeinstafollowersteam - Tuesday, January 24, 2017 - link
I'm guessing that he is showing the processor's actual speed during the test. The 2.8GHz speed likely is due to the i7's native ability to overclock itself via Turbo Mode (see page 4 of the article). Turbo mode tends to activate pretty much any time a load is on the CPU. But it's not really "unfair" as all i7 users get that benefit without doing anything extra, plus i7 chips still overclock far beyond that point. http://www.freeinstafollowers.info/Kickzing - Thursday, March 23, 2017 - link
AMD is really good and I really like how they run cooler than Intel. It's helped me to build my website http://getfreeinstagramfollowersteam.com so thanks AMD!